What up peeps,
In print, on videos, and in descriptions of ATS people always mention that one of the major influences of ATS, aside from Flamenco, is Kathak.
I study Bharatanayam, and granted am not an expert in Kathak (although I've seen oodles of it performed and have read up extensively on all of the major classical Indian dances), but I think I know enough to spot any sort of Indian dance influence in something, and fail to see any Kathak influence in ATS... unless one counts the Indian prayer FCBD uses. But one step does not a "major" influence make!
Where did this Kathak thing come from? Nearly all ATS groups that I know of (including the one I used to be a member of) mention this in their blubs, and I don't know why (maybe just 'cuz FCBD used it as part of their original description, so people just followed along?).
I'm not against fusion- all I do now is pretty much world fusion, and I think it would be kickass if Kathak really was a major part of ATS. I guess I just want things to be clear, so outsiders get an accurate perception of what's going on in a particular performance or dance form.
I know that Megha studies Odissi, and she's been a major force in ATS lately, so perhaps at this point more Indian stuff has made it into the ATS culture (I haven't done ATS hardcore for a couple years, so sadly I am out of the loop). But... even then, Odissi is different than Kathak.
Again, I'm not trying to put down ATS or anything like that, it's just something I've wondered about ever since I began my studies in Bharatanatyam. I just honestly don't know where the influence of Kathak is in ATS. But maybe I'm missing something??
Any ideas?
Peace,
Dani :)
In print, on videos, and in descriptions of ATS people always mention that one of the major influences of ATS, aside from Flamenco, is Kathak.
I study Bharatanayam, and granted am not an expert in Kathak (although I've seen oodles of it performed and have read up extensively on all of the major classical Indian dances), but I think I know enough to spot any sort of Indian dance influence in something, and fail to see any Kathak influence in ATS... unless one counts the Indian prayer FCBD uses. But one step does not a "major" influence make!
Where did this Kathak thing come from? Nearly all ATS groups that I know of (including the one I used to be a member of) mention this in their blubs, and I don't know why (maybe just 'cuz FCBD used it as part of their original description, so people just followed along?).
I'm not against fusion- all I do now is pretty much world fusion, and I think it would be kickass if Kathak really was a major part of ATS. I guess I just want things to be clear, so outsiders get an accurate perception of what's going on in a particular performance or dance form.
I know that Megha studies Odissi, and she's been a major force in ATS lately, so perhaps at this point more Indian stuff has made it into the ATS culture (I haven't done ATS hardcore for a couple years, so sadly I am out of the loop). But... even then, Odissi is different than Kathak.
Again, I'm not trying to put down ATS or anything like that, it's just something I've wondered about ever since I began my studies in Bharatanatyam. I just honestly don't know where the influence of Kathak is in ATS. But maybe I'm missing something??
Any ideas?
Peace,
Dani :)
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 4:02 PMI am not aware of any assertion that Kathak is used in ATS. Just the Puja, which is somewhat universal throughout classical Indian dances. But maybe I am missing something? Where did you read that? -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 4:13 PMI've read/heard it many places, but most recently Rachel Brice mentioned it in an article in some bellydance magazine, that ATS has Kathak influences many. If I'm not mistaken (but could be, of course!!), FCBD has used the term to describe the kinds of dances they fuse into bellydance- maybe I heard it in their first video?
:)
-D.
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:04 PMI don't have it handy now - but the old Tribal Talk has an article on the sources and inspirations of ATS moves, long before the Tribal:Pura days. Maybe that article could be useful here? The Tribal Talk archive is anyways a really fun and worthwhile book. -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 8:05 PM"The Tribal Talk archive is anyways a really fun and worthwhile book."
Yes it sure is. -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 10:04 PMSee, I would have said the Marked Spins, which everyone is doing in all favours of tribal, would be one of the major Kathak influences. Joanna Desousa of Toronto Tabla Ensemble is a force in Kathak here in Toronto and I remember the first time I saw ATS thinking, "ah HAH!"
Not sure if Resham-Ka is Odissi or Kathak. Ditto the Water Pot move.
Now, my knowledge of Classical Indian dance has mostly been from being an avid audience member (damn this poverty... not allowing me to live my life taking dance classes of all kinds...) but Bharatanatyam tends to be more languid, while Kathak is marked by its footwork and powerful moves (especially those dreamy spins!)
Megha talked about this when I was at Pura:Milwaukee, but I think I was dazzled by all her charm, Southern Accent and dancing to focus. :) -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 10:26 PMYeah, I don't see this in ATS to my eye, but I could be wrong!:
Kathak
youtube.com/watch
youtube.com/watch
youtube.com/watch
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 5:49 AMLOL! If you think Megha has a Southern accent, you should hear some other people from Alabama. Meg's is pretty subtle! In fact, most Alabama people probably think she's a Yankee! (This from someone who has lived in the South all her life and gets accused of being a Yankee in Alabama.)
I could have sworn she says on Volume 7 that the Water Pot was inspired by an Egyptian folkloric workshop, but I don't have the video with me right now to confirm that.
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 8:32 AMI don't recall any specific step being called out as inspired by Kathak (I don't think I'd ever heard it called out as an influence, period). There are some vague similarities in posture, and certainly tribal costume has some major Indian influences.
Meg, Carolena or one of the FCBD/Devyani dancers could clarify this better than I, but I'm positive that Meg's additions (Re-shamka, Water Pot, Sununda) are folk dance, not classical dance, inspired - and I think all 3 are Rajasthani. That could also be where the slow barrel turn came from. -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 9:24 AMMeg can clarify, but the water pot did not come from the same source (dancer Sununda Nair) that the Reshamka and the Sununda did. I'm pretty sure she learned the original inspiration for the Water Pot at an Egyptian folklore workshop in like, 2002. The workshop we did with Sununda was focused on Rajasthani folk dance.
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 1:15 AMI tend to think that the barrel turn has its roots in flamenco. I'm pretty sure I've seen very similar turns in flamenco performances. -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 2:43 AMA possible thought here...
If it came from Flamenco, it came from Gypsy tribes somewhere along the way.
If it came from Gypsy tribes, it came from India originally.
Now... where in India?
I remember a YouTube link someone on Tribe put up of an Indian woman in a flowing black and white (?) dress doing a spectacular barrel turn full speed. KerWow!!
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 6:08 AMWatch Latcho Drom.
Seriously.
WOW.WOW.WOW.
love.
ali -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 7:58 AMIs the Latcho Drom barrel turn up on YouTube? Does anyone know? -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:30 AMHere it is! www.youtube.com/watch -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 1:11 AMWow, that was awesome! -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 7:56 AMI asked Carolena about this, and here was her response:
"when I first started developing ATS I was taking Kathak classes and saw some elements crossing over. Since then I have broadened my scope and now realize that what I was seeing was more generally, Classical Indian Dance.
I don't see specific moves, more the respect for dance and provocative display of the female body in artistic terms."
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 5:35 PM"Marked spins", if you mean those turns, I see them more as Odissi.
Then again, I have an Odissi bias, since I studied it for a while.
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 12:14 PMwww.youtube.com/watch
I was just watching this for a totally unrelated reason (have let my hard earned Rajisthani skills lapse and trying to brush up) and noticed hints of the single bump and double bump along with the arm accents as well as Jill's Camel. I think there was something else I noticed (other than the calibrated spins) but darned if I remember. -
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Re: where's the kathak in ATS??
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 1:19 PMWah! I loved that video! Thank you for sharing it!
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