http://ats.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ba5b7f6f-2dfd-419f-b31a-148437ac129c This thread was referenced in a recent response to a question and I found the URL for Shira.net. It's a *great* post, so I thought I'd share the URL: http://shira.net/dear3-rolls.htm Andrea. :) Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:33:19 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ba5b7f6f-2dfd-419f-b31a-148437ac129c Andrea 2007-03-26T17:33:19Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#1f66122b-798a-4ac2-8760-ac948c4df10d Shira wrote a really helpful respose to a question similar to yours on her website shira.net (somewhere in her Q&A column). It helped me a lot. I am not one of those fortunate ones who've "always been able to do it", but it's coming... Slooowly :-). Sat, 03 Sep 2005 05:10:56 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#1f66122b-798a-4ac2-8760-ac948c4df10d Jaime 2005-09-03T05:10:56Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#87c84616-3ecb-4f05-a0f4-b4d97e1bcea9 I can layer the flutters, but I lose a lot of definition if I'm in the middle of a dance. Like my abs are too tired to make the effort or something. ANNOYING cause even belly rolls will feel like they're not happening (later on people tell me they looked ok, but problem is I can't FEEL it! and it's weird too look at your own belly mid-performance). Maybe I have invisi-feely-flutters? Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:38:34 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#87c84616-3ecb-4f05-a0f4-b4d97e1bcea9 Monsta! 2005-08-23T06:38:34Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#aff01a10-1679-4ce1-9921-3b29be3367d5 I can't flutter to save my life, but... Today at the gym as I was lifting weights I may have discovered something. I can't begin to explain why it worked, but here's what happened: I was doing side lateral raises with 8 lb weights in each hand. To do this you raise your arms out to the side until they're level with your shoulders. When I got to this point, and don't ask me what made me do it, I tried a flutter and lo and behold! I could see it! It wasn't big, but I actually did it! So, I set the weights down and tried it again. Nothing. Picked the weights back up and there it was again! It's most likely got something to do with my breathing and muscle contractions, but why I need the weights to do it I don't understand. So, my thought is to keep doing it with weights until it becomes muscle memory and then slowly start reducing the amount of weight until eventually I can do it without them and with my arm position anywhere. If anyone knows anything about physiology and can explain this to me I'm all ears. woo hoo! I may well be on my way to fluttering... finally!!! Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:48:29 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#aff01a10-1679-4ce1-9921-3b29be3367d5 katherine 2005-08-22T19:48:29Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#32304209-e30e-484e-a348-6495755984a3 :)...Well I figured people were getting sick of looking at my stomach and coin bra so.... Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:46:49 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#32304209-e30e-484e-a348-6495755984a3 Anne Marie (AM) 2005-08-18T20:46:49Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#c6932942-5ec1-4516-895d-35f5b410ae8c awesome! mind you, it's all advice from other people, not like i made it up ;) what a keeeeeyoot widdle dragon. his wings flap and everything! Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:02:09 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#c6932942-5ec1-4516-895d-35f5b410ae8c $item.owner.firstName 2005-08-18T18:02:09Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#a09f6c3c-b99c-4402-ae7a-82868a685f70 Just thought I'd add something different, though you might have advice overload, but this is a bit less technical. For me, flutters only happen easily in response to the music, so find some music that has periodic bursts of very short and very fast drum solos, or where you feel a short flutter would fit, and practice to that. Good luck! Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:50:58 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#a09f6c3c-b99c-4402-ae7a-82868a685f70 bianka 2005-08-18T09:50:58Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#bbface3d-70bb-4c38-8773-010e3bceba5d That's what helped me find my bellyroll. I would sit in my car driving, pushing & pulling in and out on the upper and lower parts of my belly & finally was able to separate the two. As for flutters....the closest I've come yet has been a particularly nasty case of the hiccups! Six years and I still haven't found a flutter! Oh well, maybe one day. Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:47:59 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#bbface3d-70bb-4c38-8773-010e3bceba5d Mars 2005-08-18T02:47:59Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#881ef672-57fc-44da-bc20-50228cb50ed8 Wow Cindy! What a great way to explain the roll. Never thought about it that way. I think it is an excellent way to teach it as well. What clicked with me was reading an article about a belly dancer who had stated (paraphrasing of course) that it is difficult for a women to achieve a belly roll because we are very inhibited as women and reluctant to extend our stomachs outward as we have been trained from birth to hold it in. I was able to achieve it by extending the stomach outward as far as it can go and then bringing it back in and holding. Eventually slowing down the process until I was able to make the transition gracefully. Positioning of the body and looking graceful doing it came later. This exercise helped me to strengthen the muscles as well as isolate the upper from the lower. Thanks for all the advice on flutters guys, couldn't have come as at a better time as I have been working on it religiously. All your advice is great! Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:53:22 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#881ef672-57fc-44da-bc20-50228cb50ed8 Anne Marie (AM) 2005-08-18T00:53:22Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ffa1c195-3230-4eea-9760-ad17cc5e0434 ha! thanks. he is a total ham, as are all my pets. that picture was SUCH a lucky shot! Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:43:39 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ffa1c195-3230-4eea-9760-ad17cc5e0434 principessa crankypants 2005-08-17T23:43:39Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#01f29d1c-4c69-41a9-9754-ead507589295 wow, it really is interesting how there are so many ways to travel to get to the same spot thanks all for your advice wendy, your cat is hysterical!!!! Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:48:43 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#01f29d1c-4c69-41a9-9754-ead507589295 Diane 2005-08-17T22:48:43Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#3b3977aa-eb29-49a2-b969-2a2f875d9492 my flutter isn't that big, but i remember when i actually was able to accomplish one at all was when carolena described it as sucking through a closed straw and feeling your breath almost bounce off your diaphragm, keeping the belly muscles loose. Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:43:21 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#3b3977aa-eb29-49a2-b969-2a2f875d9492 $item.owner.firstName 2005-08-14T21:43:21Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#b01ac476-144b-4da9-9c0c-d0786400ab3f just fyi, there are threads scattered on the subject like dandelion seeds all over the belly tribes, but this is what worked for me: learn to push the entire stomach in and out, first using your breath, and then without using your breath. after you've got that down, focus on separating your upper abs from your lower abs, working up to: 1. upper abs in 2. lower abs in 3. upper abs out 4. lower abs out and then switch up the order like crazy - the whole point is just to get those chunks moving separately, and when you want them to. for me, as soon as the top and the bottom went from being one single unit to two separate, talking units, both the up-to-down and the down-to-up rolls just clicked into place. Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:58:43 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#b01ac476-144b-4da9-9c0c-d0786400ab3f $item.owner.firstName 2005-08-12T15:58:43Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#81bf0c79-aae3-4d19-8c3a-285de18ba603 I think its awsome that so many people acheive this move in such a different way. i release all the air out of my lungs before i flutter. I'm not sure why... Then when i've moved all the air out of my lungs, i lift my chest up to a bit of a better position, just raising my chest a little bit, kinda in a dancer ready pose i guess, haha. (to me this kinda frees up the fat on my stomach its all exposed and really to move) And then i would push out my stomach, again and again and again. AT first you can only do it very small, almost rediculously small, and you hate it. But if you do it for a while, everywhere you go (thats what i did, haha) it just breaks through and then you've got it. No one seemed to touch on belly rolls here, and i can help you cause i such at that shit. i would honestly like someone to break down the necessary things for both belly rolls, because mine are so weak its killing me. Also i have trouble layering my flutters....does anyone else have this problem, i start to move and it just dwindles away..... HELP :o) Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:29:13 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#81bf0c79-aae3-4d19-8c3a-285de18ba603 Amanda Rose 2005-08-12T15:29:13Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#0ded2d83-4397-41c5-bc16-575510c9bb03 In response to Sabine's post: Okay, it took me for-eva to learn to shimmy with the knees. I think it will take just as long to learn this. I still feel like the flutter is coming from muscles instead of the faux breath. Practice practice practice... faint. :0 Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:59:20 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#0ded2d83-4397-41c5-bc16-575510c9bb03 $item.owner.firstName 2005-08-12T05:59:20Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#a240a69b-0507-4389-b65c-a14defccb136 Hi all, I just joined this tribe and thought I would say hello and also tell you that flutters have always been a really vague move for me, I sometimes think it is accomplished by sheer magic, but this explanation of how to do it is good and I will be giving it a try. I just hope I don't faint while doing it!!! Glad to be here!! Thanks for the tip. Luna Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:58:54 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#a240a69b-0507-4389-b65c-a14defccb136 Laughing Out Loud!! 2005-08-11T01:58:54Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#84ccb187-138c-4ae3-9a76-08d9ff3ba3f6 The abdominal muscles should be relaxed for this one. Try dropping the ribcage slightly to allow more "give" in the belly, and practice the flutter with your arms down and loose, before trying it in a more tense posture (say, with arms overhead) where the skin of the abdomen is taut. Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:38:50 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#84ccb187-138c-4ae3-9a76-08d9ff3ba3f6 Sabine 2005-08-10T20:38:50Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#16084702-8f81-42e9-90e0-15c4d5ee22fb now, see, i have the mechanics down of how to do a flutter, what i don't have is the tricky part of relaxing the skin enough to make the flutter visible. Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:52:30 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#16084702-8f81-42e9-90e0-15c4d5ee22fb principessa crankypants 2005-08-10T16:52:30Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#f7868e75-f42c-4591-9568-b136bc8cd428 I posted this on The Indigo tribe site a couple of weeks ago, and some folks found it helpful. The flutter: "Exhale, pushing almost all the air out of your lungs. Start to draw a breath and then stop it by closing off your throat (hold your breath. A hollow should apprear in your neck) Try to suck teeny breaths of air **in** through the nose but while still holding your breath-- Think "in-in-in-in-in" The diaphragh will flutter in response. It is not pushing the tummy muscles out. The tummy muscles are relaxed. This takes lots of practice. Breathe in between tries. Don't pass out! And watch your facial expression--it's easy to contort the face when you do this. " ~Sabine Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:39:52 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#f7868e75-f42c-4591-9568-b136bc8cd428 Sabine 2005-08-10T16:39:52Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ef5fd908-8932-4d0e-abbc-46f9f4438872 Thanks all I like the analogy of a dog panting... I try to keep humor in all of this "crazy" stuff we do with our bodies to achieve the look and I can definitely use this imagery. Thanks! Di Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:50:28 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#ef5fd908-8932-4d0e-abbc-46f9f4438872 Diane 2005-08-10T13:50:28Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#2684bd02-5d25-46d5-ae22-f862d2509631 As for the Flutter, think of a dog panting- how their stomach moves in and out rapidly- and try that. I know we all tried panting as kids, just to make fun of the dog!! Good luck! Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:08:42 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#2684bd02-5d25-46d5-ae22-f862d2509631 Teresa 2005-08-09T23:08:42Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#460089d0-5af9-401a-836d-feca95db2643 like Alexis said, practice all the time. and practice making them really big and defined -- when you get into the stress of performance they tend to get smaller. Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:53:32 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#460089d0-5af9-401a-836d-feca95db2643 Colette 2005-08-09T18:53:32Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#82fcfb2c-d6d1-4d92-b930-ffaf2fbe475a I practice my bellyrolls all the time to finally get them. I would just practice while sitting at work, on the bus, watching tv. Basically, I was first trying to contract and expand my stomach, which help improve strength. Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:20:21 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#82fcfb2c-d6d1-4d92-b930-ffaf2fbe475a Aleksie 2005-08-07T20:20:21Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#296b48d9-7d4e-4ecd-aa4f-8d28c0218283 I only got flutters when I heard to fill your lungs 3/4 with air, relax your body, close your mouth very tightly, and try to inhale through your mouth. That, and whenever you laugh spontaneously and your belly shakes (though I probably have more shaking than you on that count...) it'll sort of jump start the motion. Try to continue it. Now I can talk through a roll or a flutter, and roll up and down, with a flutter layered on it. You WILL get it! Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:47:16 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#296b48d9-7d4e-4ecd-aa4f-8d28c0218283 Laila 2005-08-07T17:47:16Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#f398f650-b801-4d7a-b784-47cab5361bbc Hello all I was just wondering if anyone had some advice to share on practicing bellyrolls and flutters. Sometimes I think it's genetic - sort of like the ability to roll your tongue or other things like that. Thoughts? (Actually, I think that to make myself feel better about my bellyroll struggles.) Diane Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:24:54 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/94fd7ce7-9b8a-43bf-ae1e-6d519aa0724c#f398f650-b801-4d7a-b784-47cab5361bbc Diane 2005-08-07T17:24:54Z