Corkscrew turn?

topic posted Mon, February 27, 2006 - 7:41 PM by  offlineMisha
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hi everyone! i'm hoping someone can help me with a better description of a "corkscrew turn?" i went to Tribal:Pura (heart heart heart!) in Orlando, FL and they touched on this very briefly. sadly, i wasn't too quick with the notation and didn't get a very good description. if any of you well-versed tribal folk could help me out with a better description i'd be much obliged!

here's what i got (and this could be totally wrong...i appologize in advance for any mistakes!):
1. Bring arms up over head, in "temple" pose (wrists together, elbows bent a bit)
2. gesture to R and then gesture to L...gesture = one arm up over head and other is out to side with floreo
at this time, set up feet - R should cross over L to prepare for turn
3. arms open slow to side (hold in circular position at shoulder level and then open it up)...then pull them up and push down, very deliberately...then cross them in front of the body as you execute a pivot turn
4. arms remain crossed in front of the body as you turn
5. step out R in order to re-align feet

x-posted all over da place!
posted by:
Misha
Sarasota
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  • Re: Corkscrew turn?

    Mon, February 27, 2006 - 7:45 PM
    Hi Misha,

    Your description sounds pretty good to me. I understand it completely. The only thing I would change is the moment when you cross the feet to set up for the turn.

    So what part is giving you trouble?
  • Re: Corkscrew turn?

    Mon, February 27, 2006 - 8:00 PM
    Actually - that pretty much covers it.

    Stand in place, attitude flowing (gotta look like you mean to be doing what you are doing)
    Both arms overhead, floreo
    Right arm comes down to shoulder level, left arm still overhead - floreo with both hands
    Right arm rises back overhead - floreoing with both hands
    Left arm comes down to shoulder level, right arm still overhead - floreo with both hands
    Left arm rises back overhead - floreoing with both hands
    Both arms down to shoulder level - floreo with both hands
    Both arms rise back overhead
    while all that is giong on - you cross your right foot in front of your left

    You've now preped for the turn (and the fact that both arms came down is the cue that it is *that* turn)

    As you are turning counterclockwise you bring your hands down in front of you & crossed across each other. The hands should take the same amount of time to travel down your body as it takes for your turn.

    Turn is completed - stop yourself by placing your right foot in front just a wee bit and swoop your arms out to the sides and up to finish it all off.

    (and did that make ANY sense???)
    • Re: Corkscrew turn?

      Sat, March 4, 2006 - 5:40 PM
      oooh, i'm so confused; i thought the turn with both arms going down (after the floreos on each side), and then back up, was called the propellor turn???

      i thought that in the corkscrew, the right arm goes back down with floreo, then does a slight wrist lift to cue the turn...while the left hand stays above the head, the right hand comes down slowly, to the side of the body then up the front to meet the left above the head. at the same time, the right foot crosses over the left, then uncrosses as you turn to the left, to face front.

      wendy, am i totally off base here? do i have the wrong names in my little head?
      • Re: Corkscrew turn?

        Sat, March 4, 2006 - 10:31 PM
        you have the names reversed -- the corkscrew turn has both hands coming down your center from above during the turn while the propellor turn has the right hand come down and do the little wrist cue before turning.
        • Re: Corkscrew turn?

          Sun, March 5, 2006 - 3:02 PM
          duhhh. thank you collette.
          i guess to me, having both arms come down on each side *looks* more like a propellor.

          since it's a basic step, we don't call the moves by their names in class, we just do them...unless we're drilling it.

          now i remember being able to visualize the corkscrew part as the arms come down the center...thanks for setting me straight.
          • Re: Corkscrew turn?

            Wed, October 14, 2009 - 7:18 PM
            WOW! Need to resurrect this one from 2006! A student/teacher is wanting a clarification on the turns....Corkscrew/Propellor/Reverse Turns.... From what I got from the GS, the ONLY turn that has a cue out of these 3 is the Reverse Turn. The hands/arms come overhead and floreo with a slight pause and then go into the Reverse Turn. The other moves-Corkscrew & Propellor- you just go into them i.e. floreo, gesture, look to the right, etc.

            Anybody? Bueller?......Bueller?........
            • Re: Corkscrew turn?

              Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:50 PM
              The gestures are the setups for those turns. The cue for the Corkscrew is both arms going to shoulder level. For the Propeller, it is the right arm going out to the side. The cue for the actual turns is both hands overhead and coming down, for the Corkscrew and the slight lift in the right wrist for the Propeller. There are a lot of transitions into/setups/cues in these movements.

              For the Reverse Turn, you are setting up the turn by bring the arms overhead. When your right arm and your focus goes towards the back of the right hip, that is your cue.
  • Re: Corkscrew turn?

    Fri, October 16, 2009 - 12:26 AM
    Okay, now I have a detail question, doo:
    Are the floreos optional in Corkscrew and Propellor Turn, or are they an integral part of the moves?
    • Re: Corkscrew turn?

      Fri, October 16, 2009 - 12:27 AM
      Oops ... it's "too" not "doo" ... sorry for the typo ...
      • Re: Corkscrew turn?

        Fri, October 16, 2009 - 6:34 AM
        I just completed general skills last weekend and learned that there are either no floreos or either 8 or 10. Don't have my notes with me but the corkscrew and propellor turns have 8 or 10 floreos.....one has 8 and the other has 10 or none at all. Once I have my notes in front of me, I will clarify. Joan
        • Re: Corkscrew turn?

          Fri, October 16, 2009 - 8:22 AM
          Really? I don't know if I've ever seen the move without floreos. I thought it was "no more than 8 or 10" floreos in the setup part of the turn.
          • Re: Corkscrew turn?

            Fri, October 16, 2009 - 10:23 AM
            Yes, no more than 10 but any amount between 0 and 10 is acceptable. It has a lot to do with music interpretation.
            • Re: Corkscrew turn?

              Fri, October 16, 2009 - 1:11 PM
              I can't even imagine this move without doing any floreos.
              • Re: Corkscrew turn?

                Fri, October 16, 2009 - 2:06 PM
                Well, it depends on the music's pace. Sometimes you don't want to spend so much time doing floreos and just need to get on with it. Especially if its a faster paced song like, Sahra. Doesn't mean it takes anything away from the movement. Just gives it a little punch.
                • Re: Corkscrew turn?

                  Sat, October 17, 2009 - 7:56 AM
                  I agree, with a really slow song you can work those floreos but with a faster 'slow' song I'd hate to feel like I was doing helicopter hands in order to get the floreos in. :P I often do just one (or no) floreo at certain points in the prep.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Corkscrew turn?

                    Sat, October 17, 2009 - 11:48 PM
                    One more clarification! Really! There is no actual cue for the Corkscrew/Propellor at the very start of the move, ya? You just go into it! I understand the moment of truth where you decide whether it's going to be a Corkscrew or Propellor in the middle of the move but at the VERY BEGINNING........there is no slight pause of the arms going overhead sans floreo, yes? Thanks!
                    • Re: Corkscrew turn?

                      Sun, October 18, 2009 - 6:45 AM
                      No, no slight pause. There is no cue before the arm setup because you really don't need it. For all the followers know, is that you will just be doing arm sweeps with floreos. The set up is your indicator.
                      • Re: Corkscrew turn?

                        Tue, October 20, 2009 - 11:04 PM
                        I apologize for being dense, but I'm still confused about the start of the "arm setup" for Corkscrew and Propeller. The way I was taught, you start both turns by bringing both arms overhead, just as in Reverse Turn. (Then right arm out and back up, left arm down and back up. Floreos optional at all of those phases.) So my question is, do you start Cork and Prop Turns by bringing both arms overhead? Or do you instead start by bringing left arm overhead and right arm out?
                    • Re: Corkscrew turn?

                      Sun, October 18, 2009 - 5:49 PM
                      Maybe there is some confusion about the idea of "set up" and "cue"? For me, ATS isn't so much "cued", in the way that, say, Unmata's improv is.

                      For instance, in the Unmata combos I have learned, most everything had a lead in move of some sort. Say, you do 8 basic egyptians, and the arms flow from overhead to the side...THEN the combo officially begins. Then you do some hip bumps as a filler, 8 counts of hip bumps with the arms flowing into another position is the cue...THEN the next combo begins. The way I have learned their combos in past workshops, the cues are somewhat separate from combos which are separate from filler moves. Kind of three distinct families of movement, each with their own role in the process of improvising.

                      For me, ATS is more organic, in that simply moving into the move ITSELF is what tells you what you're doing next. When I am going from an Egyptian into a hip bump, my arms changing from overhead into position 1 and my body line changing from an angle to more forward isn't a "cue", though those physical movements are what indicated the change. It is by simply going into the move, and the subtle and sometimes not as subtle changes in arms, footwork, body alignment, gaze, etc, that communicate my intention.

                      Some moves have more "set up" that others--that is, more obvious, less subtle movements and gestures which communicate that move--but really those set up gestures are in themselves also *part of the move*, not a separate cue per se.

                      So for me, the two terms are interchangeable, but the "cue" or "set up" for me is rarely a separate concept from the move itself in how I look at the moves.

                      This was a key difference for me when I came to ATS as a basis to work from. In my beginning work as a tribal dancer, we often would think of elaborate ways to cue into and out of moves or combinations, and the result was a choppier way of moving and approaching musicality. It made it harder to make changes on the fly to appropriately honor the music, because things were always so stringently set up in blocks of a set count of cues, then a set count of movement, and sometimes even a set count of "outro" movement--something to get you out of the combo and smoothly into another concept. We would sometimes find ourselves working with "dead air"--long strings of boring and monotonous "thinking movements" while we waited for the perfect set of counts to come up so we could fit the next concept we wanted to present into the music best. It lacked flow.

                      The cornerstone of ATS movement philosophy, for me, has to do with the seamless flow from one movement to the next, which comes from having "cues" or "set ups" integrated very thoughtfully into the movement vocabulary. It is something that can be confounding when I am trying to work in new movement ideas, because it will succeed best if it conforms to this philosophy or else it will feel choppy--like we hopped out of our usual dance vocabulary for a moment, did something different, and then popped back in again.

                      Am I way off base in the way my brain is working on this one?

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