Arms during Arabic

topic posted Tue, February 20, 2007 - 1:44 PM by  Amy
Can someone describe what the arms are doing in Arabic? From the description on the FCBD videos (if I'm picking it up correctly), the arm above the active hip pulls back (e.g. step R and bring up R hip, while R arm pulls straight back behind the head). But the other hand also seems to be doing something--twisting so the back of the hand is to the audience and coming ever-so-slightly forwards. Am I seeing that right? Other troupes do a "both arms pull straight out to the sides" but I don't think that's what Carolena was describing on the videos... Any suggestions?
posted by:
Amy
offline Amy
  • Re: Arms during Arabic

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 1:50 PM
    Do you mean Egyptian Basic?

    Yes, the other arm turns, so both palms are facing the same direction, and pushes slightly away from the other. So if the right hip is twisting, pull down and back with the right shoulder/arm (this effectively resists the twist of the body from the hip, accentuating the long diagonal line that is the signature of this move), and the left hand turns the palm to face the same direction as the right palm and pushes gently away.

    There are tons of videos with this move demonstrated. Have you taken a close look at it being performed? It will answer all...
  • Re: Arms during Arabic

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 2:07 PM
    I think what you're seeing when both arms pull out to the sides may be a turn cue- they differ from troupe to troupe. While the three teachers I dance with all cue the same for an Arabic Half-turn (active elbow comes forward on each side instead of pulling back), each of them has a different cue for a full turn.
    • Re: Arms during Arabic

      Tue, February 20, 2007 - 3:30 PM
      No, I'm not thinking of the 1/2 turn. I was taught that the arms pull out to the side during regular Egptian. My first ATS teacher said they pull apart front to back (so right stretches back and left comes forwards) while my teachers since then teach that they pull straight out to the sides while the hands rotate from backs facing to palms facing.

      Watch the Jun 26 video "Bellydance Superstars in ktla" at bellydancevideos.blogspot.com . The cabaret gals start duing Egyptian during the clip, and it's a slightly exaggerated version of what I've seen ATS dancers do and what I was taught. (In fact, my first intro to ATS was a cabaret gal mocking the "tribal doo-whop" and she did exactly what the Desert Roses are doing here). I like the FCBD way much better--the arms give a subtle layer to the move w/o detracting from the hip work, so I'd like to learn it that way.
      • Re: Arms during Arabic

        Tue, February 20, 2007 - 8:32 PM
        The only time we have a shift (from to back) like that is to cue a half turn. And... the arms do not go out rather they change angle from the established position. I am really interested in eharing about different cues on this though!

        Otherwise it is as described by Shay and Sandi. Sometimes we had a little more personal style to the hands...almost like a knitting motion but I have seen some do more overt hand gestures. Having the arms go out to the sides (larger gesture)is more reminiscent of the Bal Anat style I have studied. They do a half turn in this manner and lift only one hip...(If I remember correctly) and it is not referred to as an Egyptian and...this move may very well have an origin elsewhere and be quite old.

        There exists another movement where the left arm extends upward and right arm extends outward...right hip is lifted, while left foot slides behind and sideways, then the reverse is repeated on the other side with left hip lifted and right foot sliding behind and sideways while the left arm is extended outward and the right arm is up. . I watched the clip and am assuming that you are referring to the end and while I didn't see anything reminiscent of ATS... I sort of saw the last move I described. The term Egyptian when referring to a specific movement is used in many different styles and all have their own variations.

        Best bet...pick up the video series. Even if you have a teacher on the mark, it can only enhance and solidify what you have been taught. I think the Egyptian basic is on the first one right? (too lazy to pull it out and go check)
  • Re: Arms during Egyptian

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 2:35 PM
    Amy, you're right about the arms. The left arm is the "passive" arm when the right arm is pulled back and being "active"; and vice versa. There is no pulling down of the elbows or arms at the sides. You should be feeling the stretch of the opposition of the hips and elbows on the active side and neutral/stable on the passive side. The hands do turn out slightly on the passive side, but it should be a natural motion of the wrist (especially if you're playing zils), rather than a "do this, do that" forced sort of motion. But it sounds like you've got a good understanding of what it is going on.
    • Re: Arms during Egyptian

      Wed, February 21, 2007 - 10:04 AM
      Thanks so much! That's a good description for me.
      • Re: Arms during Egyptian

        Thu, March 1, 2007 - 8:14 AM
        My first intro to ATS I was taught the Egyptian Basic with the whole pulling the arms apart thing you were describing.

        When I tool the Tribal PURA workshop with Carolena and Megha last January, I had to relearn a lot of things.
        If you have a chance to take that workshop, it is amazing. Carolena is awesome and I learned more from her in 2 days that I have from other teachers in years.
        • Re: Arms during Egyptian

          Fri, March 2, 2007 - 11:17 AM
          I was taught many years ago to pull the arm( wrist leading the motion) forward with the corresponding hip and consecuently taught it this way to my students. Am I doing them a disservice(oo spelling?) by teaching it this way or should I teach it as an "alternative" or is it just wrong??

          Any help would be appreciated, i am really struggling with this one!:)
          • Re: Arms during Egyptian

            Fri, March 2, 2007 - 7:51 PM
            Lacey,

            If I'm reading you correctly - you pull the right arm forward as the right hip goes up? If so, that would be a cue for the Egyptian half turn. For a "standard" Egyptian basic - you pull the right arm back and down as the right hip goes up so that the arm opposes the hip. Taking the arm forward with the hip is the cue to start half turns.
            • Re: Arms during Egyptian

              Fri, March 2, 2007 - 11:26 PM
              Ever since I took the General Skills certification weekend intensive with Carolena, I've made it my mission to teach these moves exactly like the FCBD format. So that meant coming back to my students and telling them instead of thinking of "tongs" pulling out and in, I showed them the original move which has the hands doing their thang! It was frustrating at first but they're slowly but surely getting it and I am soo glad that I corrected this right away and not just go "oh well, that'l do".
              • Re: Arms during Egyptian

                Sun, March 4, 2007 - 7:18 AM
                "Ever since I took the General Skills certification weekend intensive with Carolena, I've made it my mission to teach these moves exactly like the FCBD format."

                Sharon turns green with envy wondering WHEN she will have both the time and money (together at the very same time) to get to S.F. (or anyotherwhere) to take the G.S.I. Sigh.
          • Re: Arms during Egyptian

            Sat, March 3, 2007 - 1:40 AM
            Lacey, there are so many versions of the Egyptian Basic, I don't think you could be doing it wrong, just differently. Its up to you how you want to teach it.

            The difference with your description and the FC style is the arms are in the opposite positions. What the Egyptian strives to create on the bumping side is a beautiful diagonal line running from your knee to your hand. Starting with the right hip swiveling up and forward, the right arm pulls back (1) - leading with the elbow, but keeping the soft, rounded curve in the arm. We usually say that at this moment is when all your friends should be taking photos of you. Its the ultimate showgirl pose, eh? Uplifting open arms, lifted chest, right leg propped up on the ball of the foot, twisting the hip forward. Then you have the neutral position (2), before switching to the other side (3), and back to neutral (4).

            The wrists don't lead in the arm movements, the elbows do. And the cue for the half turn is not an arm gesture or a pulling down of the arms, but the whole upper torso twisting towards the left side and then the right - as opposed to keeping the upper body facing as forward as possible, which it should be normally. The elbows are still pulling back, even during the cue for the half turns.

            Hope this helps and the I haven't confused you even more!

            *;}
            • Re: Arms during Egyptian

              Tue, April 15, 2008 - 11:01 AM
              So if I can add one thing that really helped me in being able to teach this more effectively?

              In the TT, we had this move taught (by Marta!) to us, and Carolena critiqued and we discussed it, and I received a VISION FROM THE EB GODS! I always had a tough time teaching what the hands were doing, and this was completely revelatory for me, and already I have seen awesome results in my students!

              What I loved what the idea that the palms are kind of neutrally forward, and as you pull down on the shoulder blade of the active side (active side being the hip that is pivoting/twisting), that arm pulls back, the other naturally softens a bit forward (since you aren't trying to hold it rigidly in place), and the arms naturally start to line up in that familiar Egyptian Basic way. When you add zills, the hands get a little bit more active, and tend to "flip" more. But it isn't even something you really have to try and "do" if you start from a neutral, gently forward facing palm. The hands take care of themselves, in a way!

              WHAT A REVELATION!

              I am sure Sandy and Wendy are chuckling at me, because of course they knew this all along. But I wasn't taught Egyptian in the same way as you all were, and so had been working with that and trying to interpret with my own eyes and brain for years and have never struck on a really concise way to get my students doing the "flip" without them looking like they were TRYING to flip, or getting confused, or... So this was big for me.

              What I am loving learning about ATS is how things kind of happen naturally. All the things that look to us like such precise intention has more to do with just naturally letting your body respond to ONE specific element, and the other elements grow out of it without much effort. I feel like I have spent years trying to make certain elements happen--actively pushing here or twisting there or yanking this or that way--when if it is done correctly, all the details flow effortlessly out of the singular element being showcased. And of course it takes time to build that element and refine all those details to a tailored shine, but that a large part of the beauty of ATS is letting the details evolve from your body organically...that's exciting stuff!
              • Re: Arms during Egyptian

                Tue, April 15, 2008 - 12:04 PM
                "What I am loving learning about ATS is how things kind of happen naturally. All the things that look to us like such precise intention has more to do with just naturally letting your body respond to ONE specific element, and the other elements grow out of it without much effort. I feel like I have spent years trying to make certain elements happen--actively pushing here or twisting there or yanking this or that way--when if it is done correctly, all the details flow effortlessly out of the singular element being showcased. And of course it takes time to build that element and refine all those details to a tailored shine, but that a large part of the beauty of ATS is letting the details evolve from your body organically...that's exciting stuff!"

                This is the Revelation that many people seem to need to have. I do giggle a little when people ask such microscopically detailed questions about what my pinky finger is doing and all that. Not that they're bad questions at all (its nice to know that there are other dancers out there that are so detail-oriented like me), but a lot of what ATS is about is working the movements into your body and bringing yourself into the movements. We all speak the same language in our own special ways, but as long as we keep the integrity of the language together, we can all converse, regardless of our accents or the shape of our tongues.
                • Re: Arms during Egyptian

                  Tue, April 15, 2008 - 12:55 PM
                  as i wrote in the other Egyptian arms post, ATS is also life long learning--as communication is.

                  humbling and beautiful...

                  thanks sandi!!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Arms during Egyptian

                    Tue, April 15, 2008 - 4:40 PM
                    uh.....i love you all! I'm still basking in my ATS TT afterglow and I hope it never fades away!

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