http://ats.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#93e86233-1718-4b62-83c5-21934abfd5af *giggle* Somehow I had a feeling that was going to be the answer. Thanks for your patience and help! Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:30:20 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#93e86233-1718-4b62-83c5-21934abfd5af Ilyena 2007-10-31T17:30:20Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#a0dafc3b-0097-4890-8b3f-9867a09c64c1 ohkay, that's easy enough. the question must've been buried in all the other detail. there is no cue. with slow movements, you have enough time to catch the movement as the leader starts it. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:07:11 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#a0dafc3b-0097-4890-8b3f-9867a09c64c1 principessa crankypants 2007-10-31T17:07:11Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#8b9064a0-b669-468f-9526-46a6edf49215 Ok, whatever it's called, I'm asking: Is there a cue for it? What is the cue for it? Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:03:06 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#8b9064a0-b669-468f-9526-46a6edf49215 Ilyena 2007-10-31T16:03:06Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#00b973e4-6fed-4089-9db0-e15b6c9cbc0b it's the same move. *the footwork* for the torso rotation turn is similiar to *the footwork* for the circle step turn. what you are describing is the *turning* torso rotation/twist. there is a torso rotation with and without the turn. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:17:50 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#00b973e4-6fed-4089-9db0-e15b6c9cbc0b principessa crankypants 2007-10-31T05:17:50Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#bf8fe564-cb96-4328-8c13-0be861da2005 Hmm.. that's what I thought at first, too, but Vol 4 Advanced Wksp describes Torso Twist as follows: This is a counterclockwise turn with a torso rotation. It uses the same foot pattern as the Circle Step, but in the opposite direction. Starting with both feet facing forward, shift the weight to the left foot. Pick up the right foot and place it perpendicular to the left foot so that the toes of the left foot are pointing at the arch of the right foot and the toes of the right foot are facing the left wall of your box. Pivot on the ball of the left foot until both feet are parallel again. As you pick up the right foot, lift the right elbow and shift the weight of the torso to the left. As the feet become parallel, the torso shifts to the back and the arms are neutral. Stay in place to finish the torso rotation to the right and front. Before starting the turn again. Arms: As the body’s weight shifts to the left, turn the right elbow up to the ceiling. As the body’s weight shifts to the back, both elbows are neutral. As the body’s weight shifts to the right, raise the left elbow, and as the body shifts to the front the elbows are neutral again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is that move still used, but called something different now? Whatever that move is, does it have a cue, and if so what is it? Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:29:10 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#bf8fe564-cb96-4328-8c13-0be861da2005 Ilyena 2007-10-31T02:29:10Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#4857e4ca-720c-452f-85ca-ec61e6ffa6f8 same move, slightly different terminology. torso twist is the same thing as torso rotation. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:49:11 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#4857e4ca-720c-452f-85ca-ec61e6ffa6f8 principessa crankypants 2007-10-31T01:49:11Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#c084c31b-05ed-444e-921a-01946a819726 What is being described in this post sounds like a Torso Rotation. I thought the Torso Twist was like a combination of Torso Rotation and Circle Step. I'm clarifying, because my question is: What (if any) is the cue for Torso Twist (i.e. the combo step)? Thanks!!!! Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:00:13 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#c084c31b-05ed-444e-921a-01946a819726 Ilyena 2007-10-30T23:00:13Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#1e994612-cc18-4930-91f8-daea554f7e5d Yes, thanks for this discussion. This move is deceptively hard! And what's ironic is that all newbies when they see it, want to do it sooo bad. I must admit it's one of my favorite moves and I will forever have Jill Parker and Carolena performing a duet etched in my brain and this move on the FCBD Live. I must've watched that tape a million times! Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:58:47 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#1e994612-cc18-4930-91f8-daea554f7e5d SOOZ 2007-10-03T21:58:47Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b418a476-dc19-4d94-ab32-fd5325800a69 They're both the same move. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:59:27 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b418a476-dc19-4d94-ab32-fd5325800a69 Sandi 2007-10-03T19:59:27Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#75e49625-2f41-44d5-8c38-2eb94a07dd1c will someone clarify the difference between a "torso twist" and "torso rotation." is it the same movement? in gs carolena refers to "torso twist" and the fundamentals dvd refers to "torso rotation." i figured that "torso twist" was the act of gradually moving with other dancers. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:54:26 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#75e49625-2f41-44d5-8c38-2eb94a07dd1c laurie♥ 2007-10-03T19:54:26Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#9e68e107-ae11-49ff-9a14-f93c3ae8c928 "Ed Grimley! Well, I was considering a pointy hairdo like his actually." Okay, I now have this mental image of you with the Ed Grimley hair and a ginormous bindi going from your forehead all the way up to the point. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:59:35 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#9e68e107-ae11-49ff-9a14-f93c3ae8c928 Kari 2007-10-03T17:59:35Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#0a4a0ea9-8eeb-4505-92b6-11b1f335a041 > Think Ed Grimley does Tribal. HA! Thanks for this discussion - I think I've found some new ways to think about practicing this move. I've always struggled with this isolation. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:59:12 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#0a4a0ea9-8eeb-4505-92b6-11b1f335a041 Pacifica Funkster 2007-10-03T17:59:12Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b351c419-c687-43c4-a283-eb7238465264 "Think Ed Grimley does Tribal. " GAAAAHHHHH!!! I think that just broke my brain. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:45:01 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b351c419-c687-43c4-a283-eb7238465264 principessa crankypants 2007-10-03T17:45:01Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#fc982247-747e-4cda-bd99-ff333eafc553 Ha ha! Me too! I was trying to figure out how to explain it, so of course, I had to try it out here at the front desk! :D Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:35:58 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#fc982247-747e-4cda-bd99-ff333eafc553 Sandi 2007-10-03T17:35:58Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#366e6fe0-e36e-4d00-8daf-d0c4f96719d8 Ha ha! Ed Grimley! Well, I was considering a pointy hairdo like his actually. ;} Sounds like you need to add a little bit of both versions to the mix. Just a little bit more chest lift when coming around to the back and keeping the posture in place for the rest of the body. Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:34:51 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#366e6fe0-e36e-4d00-8daf-d0c4f96719d8 Sandi 2007-10-03T17:34:51Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#ca032c39-9ece-4fac-92a1-c27fbe3b2fbd That helps tremendously - especially the visual of a friend resting an arm on your shoulders. Thanks! /continues practicing torso twist while sitting in cubicle - hopes coworkers don't notice/ Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:32:49 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#ca032c39-9ece-4fac-92a1-c27fbe3b2fbd Kari 2007-10-03T17:32:49Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b8852e44-672a-401c-9783-e05295b370ac "Sweeping the "upper back" inside the barrel is as low as the shoulder blades..." Meant to say "is not as low as the shoulder blades..." Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:30:53 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#b8852e44-672a-401c-9783-e05295b370ac Sandi 2007-10-03T17:30:53Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#6e5b08a8-50bf-4a09-8cbf-63575fe0c810 A common hurdle with the Torso Twist is keeping the hips released and stable. Its an isolated movement only in the upper torso area, so the hips should not be moving sympathetically underneath. The lack of the big lift in the chest pushes the hips forward and also collapses the chest a little. This is also due to pushing further back in order to make the movement deeper, but this can compromise the integrity of the movement. Sweeping the "upper back" inside the barrel is as low as the shoulder blades (which would cause rounding of the back), but the shoulder ridge, where if a friend rested their arm on your shoulders, that's more the area you want to brush against the barrel. Hope that helps! *;} Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:27:39 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#6e5b08a8-50bf-4a09-8cbf-63575fe0c810 Sandi 2007-10-03T17:27:39Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#a9369b6c-10b1-42c4-85c5-b0a9e7ce6280 "in my experience, new students can see that sliding across the back as letting the chest collapse and the back round out." That's exactly what I want to avoid. When I first learned this move, I'd lose the chest lift and end up totally concave - like I needed to slide my entire upper back around the inside of that barrel. So not pretty. Think Ed Grimley does Tribal. The new explanation that I got about the move made it seem like the total opposite of what I was doing before. Finding a way to reconcile the two has been baffling my brain. Thanks, Sandi and Wendy for taking the time to answer my questions. Your help is very much appreciated! :) Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:59:26 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#a9369b6c-10b1-42c4-85c5-b0a9e7ce6280 Kari 2007-10-03T16:59:26Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#e7d0a1b6-cd76-4053-a2c7-241494cf16b1 the only difference i can see is in the first version, "chest starts at neutral, is lifted off-center and to the left, slides across back (as if tops of shoulders are sweeping along the inside of a barrel)," you want to make sure the chest stays lifted as the upper body slides across the back. that's the big chest lift in the second description. in my experience, new students can see that sliding across the back as letting the chest collapse and the back round out. does that make sense? Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:46:07 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#e7d0a1b6-cd76-4053-a2c7-241494cf16b1 principessa crankypants 2007-10-03T16:46:07Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#1dc80a18-94c9-4c23-8d0a-aee7a874b7f7 Thanks for the response. It does read the same, doesn't it? Hrm...maybe this will help clarify: The first way I learned it, there wasn't an emphasis on the chest lift in the middle. It was more of a chest slide from the right to the left instead of the big lift. The shoulders as well as a bit of the upper back were sweeping along the inside of that imaginary barrel. Here is a vid from an old troupe performance (one of the first moves is torso twist): http://www.mizmarmadness.com/MizmarMadnessVideo.htm [Apologies to my troupemates but youtube is blocked from my office so I'm unable to find a link to a vid where I'm doing this move!] Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:38:55 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#1dc80a18-94c9-4c23-8d0a-aee7a874b7f7 Kari 2007-10-03T16:38:55Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#c9952c0a-7d72-4510-b881-7ad2118ee7ff Hmmm...I don't see what the difference is. If the tops of your shoulders are sweeping along the inside of a barrel, you will be using the big chest lift to achieve that in order to keep from compressing the lower back. And the shoulder blades are being used in the arm undulation. All in a continuous flow. They're both the same in my book. *;} Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:11:53 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#c9952c0a-7d72-4510-b881-7ad2118ee7ff Sandi 2007-10-03T16:11:53Z http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#94212e68-6e18-4784-b241-2d73be407cfd When I was taught the Torso Twist, it was broken down as drawing a heart-shape: chest starts at neutral, is lifted off-center and to the left, slides across back (as if tops of shoulders are sweeping along the inside of a barrel), lifted to the right and then back to neutral. Arm undulations are layered over this. However, I just had a local instructor (whose opinion I respect very much and who recently completed the FC GSI) teach me a different way: chest starts at neutral, lifts off-center and to the left, big chest lift in center with shoulder blades in and down, lifts to right, back to neutral. Arm undulations are layered over this version as well. So, now I am totally confused about which version to teach my students. Any advice? Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:46:13 GMT http://ATS.tribe.net/thread/cf733236-bace-4dfa-a9c7-d3c5a966839d#94212e68-6e18-4784-b241-2d73be407cfd Kari 2007-10-03T14:46:13Z