I've been meaning to post this for some time now. And today seems like a good day to do it, so here goes.
My favorite ATS move, is, hands down, the Egyptian. I love the hip movement and what it does to a skirt. I love the face-framing arms. I just love it. But there is one thing I have noticed about this move...
... everyone seems to do it a little (or a lot) different.
When doing the Egyptian, the arms specifically, when they bend do they stay behind the head, or do they bend and come forward? I have been following what I was taught at Pura and what's on the DVDs.... and that's arms behind the head, framing, not blocking. Is that right?
oxox
My favorite ATS move, is, hands down, the Egyptian. I love the hip movement and what it does to a skirt. I love the face-framing arms. I just love it. But there is one thing I have noticed about this move...
... everyone seems to do it a little (or a lot) different.
When doing the Egyptian, the arms specifically, when they bend do they stay behind the head, or do they bend and come forward? I have been following what I was taught at Pura and what's on the DVDs.... and that's arms behind the head, framing, not blocking. Is that right?
oxox
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Buffalo
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 10:31 AM
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 10:34 AMI agree that i see this movement may be done differently and looks different sometimes...i'm all about framing and lines, and the arms in this step really showcase that.
I loved Megha's explanation at the first TP i attended years ago...she talked about the shoulder blade and lat contracting to bring the arm back (and shoulder down) and making sure the arm is open (elbows back but without opening the ribcage much). Very similar to the upper back contraction especially for the right arm in the hip bump double/choo choo double. So the arms do come behind the head...but again, not just from the upper back contraction, but also from bringing the elbow out and opening the arm.
I have watched Carolena and the FCBD ladies like a hawk to see how they frame and open their arms in this step, and technically it is the same as flamenco...and i do see that flavor in it...but i'm an avid flamenco student so i see it everything i do... :)
I also had to teach this step in front of Carolena for the TT...i still remember how i almost nearly collapsed from nerves...
If i'm mistaken in my explanation, please forgive me!! (ATS is about lifelong learning i think!)
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 2:07 PMLoves me my Marta! I was also priviliged to be in the same TT class as Marta and she was a great teacher and was just the sweetest thing and she KNOWS what she's talking bout- nerves or no nerves! I think not only with this move but ALL the ATS moves: it's all about framing and lines, that's the beauty of this dance! And I too watch the FCBD ladies live and on video like a hawk and their attention to details is so inspiring! Just like in ballet, dancing en pointe, balance, endless drilling, the strength involved and yet it is a dance that's known more for it's grace, beauty, skimming across the stage as if light as a feather. It's breathtaking to watch! And the ladies of FatChance exhibit those same qualities everytime! -
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 3:32 PMLoved me muh Sooz!!!
I agree so much, Sooz... : it's all about framing and lines, that's the beauty of this dance. It really is.
Traci pointed me at another thread about Egyptians, which I missed because of the name (Arabic with Arms), and it's a good one. I got lots of answers there.
oxox
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 9:17 PMYou haad to teach in front of Carolena......gawd, this makes me so much more nervous now! I'm going to do all I can to prepare for the TT in November.....but iz scared even mour now!!! -
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 10:53 PMYes, having to teach her moves, in front of her, is nerve-wracking indeed but it was also exhilirating, amazing, humbling, and for me, very surreal! I'll shall never forget it! -
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, April 15, 2008 - 11:08 PMLOL At least with the TT, we were backed up by fellow "victims"! When I did my teacher training with Paulette, most days it was just me and her...and I had to teach HER the moves. She would pretend to mess up and I had to CORRECT HER! And this was before I had ever taught a class, too, so I was so scared and green...
It was great to have the personal attention, but sooooo stressful having to work one-on-one "teaching" her personally. It's not like that now that she has fleshed out her teacher training in the 7 years since I did it, but whew!
Doing the TT with all those other fabulous ladies (aw, you guys!!!) was a real treat!!
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 12:34 PMI teach it the way Marta describes as well. :) I love the simplicity of the shoulder blade coming down into the back, and the tension and strength that contraction gives to the upper body.
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Re: The Egyptian
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 6:56 AMI've had three different ATS/ITS teachers and three different ways of doing the Egyptian. A bit frustrating but its interesting to note the slight variations. Some are just 'pulling taffy' with hip lifts and no real attention paid to where the arms are located (other than way up) to the FCBD style with the way that Miss Boo described it.
FWIW, I prefer the look and feel of the FCBD style. Now to get my body to cooperate with me! -
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Re: The Egyptian
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 10:37 AMIt is definitely that relationship between the upper and lower body (hips and arms) that makes this move what it is!
I learned it a more traditional cabaret way first, which is yet again another different variation, with the hand "offering" forward on the active hip side, other hand behind your ear.
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Re: The Egyptian
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 11:21 AMThe FCBD Egyptian was designed to look powerful from all angles. If you look at it head on, you see swively hips and high arms framing the head. From the side, you see the arms pulling back (so you can see the face) and hips moving forward and up. If you see it from the back, you see the back muscles pulling the shoulders down and lifting the chest and the hips swinging back and forth. Its a very big, fancy move!
*;} -
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Re: The Egyptian
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 7:10 AMIt's my favorite too--- Its one i really get into and love the regality of it up top and the sweet hips below!!!
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Re: The Egyptian
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 3:08 PMWow!!!! You just knocked my socks off with that description, Sandi!!!
This is why this is one of my favorite moves to do, and look at... more like, stare at.
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 6:42 PMI just learned this move, and I don't see anyone putting their hands near their face. As Sandi said, it's a very powerful move, but I also notice the arms are (controlled) very open compared to tribal second (I think that's hands over head?). -
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 11:34 PMOne of four arm positions my teacher taught us. It's the arm position with our hands over our heads. -
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Re: The Egyptian
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 11:38 PMAnd to clarify, I'm just going off of memory. It could just be "arm position two" for all I know.
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:44 AMI did a lil research on this because we were learning basic arm positions in our class... but they didn't really line up spot on with 'classical' training it seemed. This could be two things.... I'm retarded and I didn't get it right or two there were a few things lost in translation.
For our class we learned, first, first high, second fourth and fifth (don't ask where third came in... I don't know!)
First was the beach ball look... pretty hands... arms held like you would a beach ball, just down in front a little bit (we don't use this much in bd it seems) first high was the same thing, only directly infront. (soft elbows, slightly wider than your wrists and finger tips which were about 8-10" apart at a guess)
Second is arms out wide... typical drilling posture. Soft elbows elevated, back engaged.
fourth (for our class): one arm remains out in second the other comes directly in front of you. and it works the other way to... so I guess a fourth a and b... for right and left.
fifth position is arms reaching skyward... we were taught that you do not pull your arms behind your head. with your arms up... you should be able to look right and left and still see. IE. not blocking your light of site. with this your elbows are still soft, but wider than your fingers (so kind of the same beach ball idea (just not a giant beach ball)
As always there are styalistic differences for each arm postion w/ basic egyptian. some emphasis, an arm w/ the same hip, some do not. It's kind of what look you are going for, either way it frames the face and accents your whole body by removing your hands from your hip region.
Also second that that it is a powerful move. =) love it!
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 7:27 AM"For our class we learned, first, first high, second fourth and fifth (don't ask where third came in... I don't know!) "
The way I learned arms, third is one arm stays out as in second, the other goes overhead, like half a fifth. I learned fourth as the arm that went up in third stays up, and the arm that was out in thrid comes in front of you.
I didn't formally learn what Basha describes as fourth, though of course everyone uses it. Maybe in the terminology I learned it would be second-and-a-half? -
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 8:32 AMI have no idea what you guys are talking about!
Are you talking about arm positions for the Egyptian? -
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 8:59 AMI think we're just talking about the basic arm positions taught in our classes (that go along with characteristic ATS posture), not even for Egyptian. It's interesting to see how people are taught differently even though the style we're learning came from the same source.
My teacher was a part of FCBD for years, and she seems to like to keep things standard. I e-mailed her about it actually, because it makes me curious! (and now we've gone offtopic completely).
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:58 AMjust 'basic' arm positions.
which as you can see in a matter of less than 3 hours we have differences in the education as to what they are called and in what exact location the arms should be.
Either way arms for basic egyptian are generally above the head in what ever position you may refer to it as.
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Re: The Egyptian
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:00 AMah... OK. that might be it.. .. I looked it up on line and the ballet stuff was a bit different, I think it was more along these lines as to what you are refering to . =)
it makes more sense that it be a second and a half.... it doesn't make sense that it owuld be forth. ! but I don't know much. =)
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